So much like a natural language (Ido)

So much like a natural language

Ido

created: 2004-06-17 19:40:38

perlmonks

node
author

prlmnks

node
author

Every once in a while I'm asked "So what's so special about that language, Perl?". Usually, I try to explain how I find Perl special, how I find it natural, and yet so powerful. Frankly, it's been quiet a while since I'd last written anything in Perl. It's also been more than a year since I'd written here. A few days ago I decided to take Perl out of the shelf, just for mere fun. Suprisingly (or not), I did not forget. Everything goes just (well, almost..) as fluently as it used to. Feels like a natural langauge...

Re: So much like a natural language

Zaxo

created: 2004-06-17 19:49:57

perlmonks

prlmnks

That is a stated goal for perl5, and I agree that it succeeds wonderfully. The natural feel of the language is indeed hard to forget, once learned.

It contributes to my unease about perl6 that the model there appears to be a formal language with an unambiguous grammar, rather than a natural language.

After Compline,
Zaxo

Re^2:So much like a natural language

pbeckingham

created: 2004-06-17 23:33:59

perlmonks

prlmnks

I don't think that ambiguity of grammar is what gives Perl 5 it's flexibility and natural feel. I think that Perl 6 - a larger language - will provide many more "ways to do it", and will possibly have even more of that quality you like.

My Perl 6 unease is that "once learned" clause you added to your statement about Perl 5. When Perl 6 is here, despite the excellent Exegeses and the years of discussion, we are all going to slide some way back down that learning curve.

Re^3: So much like a natural language

l3nz

created: 2004-06-19 01:59:21

perlmonks

prlmnks

I wonder how far in the future is that "When Perl 6 is here" of yours. I would not start worrying today, anyway.... :-)

Re^4: So much like a natural language

pbeckingham

created: 2004-06-19 12:25:36

perlmonks

prlmnks

Absolutely. I will not start worrying in 2004, and I won't be doing much worrying in 2005 either. First Parrot, then Ponie, then P6, and finally me, slipping and sliding trying to get traction on the curve.

Re^3: So much like a natural language

japhy

created: 2004-06-26 23:53:52

perlmonks

prlmnks

I for one welcome a slight slide down the curve of learning. I don't want to sound too pretentious, but I'd like to learn more Perl, and short of ugly things like ioctl and shmget and whatever modules I haven't yet needed, there's not much I can think of. Sure, I could stand to increase my obfuscational abilities, but that's not practical.

And I could learn Ruby, which is similar to Perl but not Perl, but I wouldn't be using it. I want the enjoyment of discovery with this language, and I haven't had that for quite a few years.

_____________________________________________________
Jeff[japhy]Pinyan: Perl, regex, and perl hacker, who'd like a job (NYC-area)
s++=END;++y(;-P)}y js++=;shajsj<++y(p-q)}?print:??;

Re^4: So much like a natural language

pbeckingham

created: 2004-06-27 00:16:42

perlmonks

prlmnks

I'm not far enough up that curve to welcome a slide, but I know how you feel.

While Perl remains my language of choice, I did go off and learn Ruby. I highly recommend it, not that I want to try to use it at work, or supplant Perl, or even truly believe that it stands a chance against Perl and Python, but because there are some very, very nice things about that language, that made me think differently.

Re^5: So much like a natural language

japhy

created: 2004-06-27 00:21:06

perlmonks

prlmnks

I learned some Ruby. Enough to write some programs that I wish could be translated easily into Perl. ;) ~~Then I got jealous, and cursed the name of Ruby~~

One of the nicest features about Ruby is one of it smallest and perhaps least significant. That ending punctuation on methods is so visually appealing and powerful to me.

str = orig.chomp;  # chomp()s copy of orig, stores in str
orig.chomp!;       # chomp()s orig in-place

That just floored me. I wrote one really dumb program that exploited that. I made chomp? that basically returned whether the string would be changed by chomping it. What a cool feature. And so tiny!

_____________________________________________________
Jeff[japhy]Pinyan: Perl, regex, and perl hacker, who'd like a [http://www.pobox.com/~japhy/resume.txt|job] (NYC-area)
s++=END;++y(;-P)}y js++=;shajsj<++y(p-q)}?print:??;

Re^6: So much like a natural language

pbeckingham

created: 2004-06-27 01:03:04

perlmonks

prlmnks

Very nice. What a sweet language. When I read the pickaxe book, I get these moments where I think Matz is one very gifted man.

What a shame it is horribly outperformed by Perl. At least, it used to be. Maybe if/when it migrates over to the Parrot runtime...